“MOST PEOPLE DO NOT LISTEN WITH THE INTENT TO UNDERSTAND, THEY LISTEN WITH THE INTENT TO REPLY."

--Steven Covey

 

Colin Smith and I meet, virtually, every few weeks and talk about politics, spirit, the state of the world, living et al. Most of the conversations circle back to talking about . . . conversations:

 

IN “THE LISTENING”

Colin: First off it is really about being here, and how many times do we—we people—not show up in conversation? We're not . . . we're not here. We're not paying full attention. We’re sort of half in, half out. So, it could be that I've come to spend some time with you, but I've had a particularly difficult call earlier on and it's playing on my mind. I'm thinking that we've got something—Molly and I are going out tonight, and I'm thinking something else. So I'm not a hundred percent here with you now, and when that's happening, I’m not, let's say, in the listening.

We have this façade of being with what’s going on, so I'm going to look like I'm listening. I'm going to look like I'm paying you attention when I'm speaking, but actually I'm not really, it's just like a game. And it only takes us a moment to get the cues that someone is in the game, not the listening. Does that make sense?

 

THE MAGNET OF SOMEWHERE ELSE

Mac: Yeah. Very much. It’s this magnet of somewhere else. The fear of missing out. So, if I invest my whole ears and brain and heart with what you’re adding to our talk, what about Joe over there? What about the next shiny object? What about my phone—is it buzzing? What if I miss something?

Colin: You know, as you said, it's a distraction. I mean if there is a clap of thunder or if a sparrow flew into my window, right? Or a light bulb bursts or something, I mean, that's a distraction. Yes, and when I’m listening from my heart and my brains and my spirit, I'm not holding my breath in hopes of a distraction. Yes.

Mac: Do you think this is sort of organically programmed into us to not get too focused because we might miss the stalking tiger? Is this injected into us by the times in which you and I have lived our entire lives - virtual distractibility? And maybe it separates us even more because the subtle subtext is I’m fascinated by what you’re saying . . . until something, anything really, takes my attention.

And what you said about the cues, thanks so much for that. I know—now— that when I listen best, I frequently break eye contact because otherwise I get distracted by visual overload. Didn’t even know I did that until someone came up after a class and said I was rude because while he was trying to talk to me, I kept looking away, like hurry up . . . and shut up. It was news to me. A gift regardless of his coming after me a little bit. And it helped me understand, and shouldn’t that be what we’re after above anything else? We can approach understanding when we don’t let our own crap get in the way.

We need to be absolutely straight up with each other about the connective tissue of our conversation, just like asking someone to speak up because we can’t hear them. Is that rude or just courageous to mention that we’re not comfortable with the other person’s attention or inattention really? Because we deep-down all want to be words-connected, don’t we? In a mutual flow.

 

THE COFFEE SHOP: HANGING ON EVERY WORD

Colin: In it. Maybe it’s about love. We have all had the experience of sitting in a coffee shop or wherever and there’s a couple who are clearly in love with each other and we notice them, and they sit and notice each other. You know, when you meet your girlfriend for the first time and you’re in love and all those things and you’re hanging on every word. Now I appreciate we may not be hanging on everyone’s word, but couldn’t we just give them that level of attention? And what I’ve noticed is that when we do that, they feel better for it. I feel better for it. The relationship feels better for it.

Mac: The coffee shop is cool. Like losing track of time and what’s going on because you’re in it, right?

Colin: When I know the conversation is in flow because I'm . . . it's almost as though there is a bubble. That's put over you and me or whoever I'm with right now. So it's like I'm deep in it and now I'm off and I suddenly noticed that coffee shop has got busier or quieter. Like where did everybody go? Where did they all come from? Because they weren't here when I noticed last time if that makes sense. We were in the bubble.

Mac: Like little kids watching a ladybug with everything they've got, no filters or waiting for something else to happen. That kind of love-curiosity, it’s, um, childlike, right? And didn’t we talk about how curiosity and resentment can’t live in the same space? Aren’t the newly-in-love couples in the coffee shop stoked up with curiosity? Like I want to find out everything about you I can. Right now. We don’t even need more coffee. Just talk to me. Head-to-head but more than that heart-to-heart.

 

SAFETY = CLOSE TO THE HEART, SAFE IN OUR CONVERSATION

Colin: Okay, follow me here. So Nancy Kline's work (https://www.timetothink.com/nancy-kline/) tells me that the quality of my thinking improves with my listening, always  you know, and that's why I know whenever you and I are in in conversation as we are now, I don't have to think about censoring anything. I don't have to worry that you're going to interrupt me, that you're going to metaphorically steal the conversation, I know that you're going to be building upon it as I would build upon what you say. So it feels safer. I don't have to worry about anything. I don't feel threatened. I know you’ll be next to me rather than opposite me.

You know, I'm interested in when we talked earlier, I was genuinely interested in what you were saying. So I was asking you questions about it, I know it's a subject that's close. I know now more about the something that's close to your heart, right?  Here is someone that's genuinely interested in knowing what it's like to be the other person and I can tell they're interested because of the questions they ask.

It's all of those, all of those things that are going on, and when all of that is going on, I've got no capacity to think about anything else—when I’m safe in our conversation, I don’t need to push back or escape.

Mac: We keep coming back to intention, I think—you and I bounce around and then we come back and realize we’re side by side. Like the coffee shop and the bubble, and safe. And if we can preserve that curiosity, childlike, not childish, right? Even if we’re butting heads, we’ll always explore rather than just generate heat.

Colin: Less heat, less noise.

Colin’s handle, as truckers used to say on their CB radios, is The Listener. I guess I’m The Talker. So, we each wrote down four things to help us practice toward less heat and noise:

 

The Ears (from The Listener, Colin)

  • Your intention– Think about, how am I going to show up?  Is my mind clear of thoughts from before and plans for after?  Am I seeking to serve the person in front of me?  Can I still and quieten myself to see and hear the speaker?
  • Clearing distractions– Is my mobile on silent and out of sight, and mind?  Is my laptop closed?  Is the space in which we are talking appropriate for the meeting we are having?  Is my mind quiet?  Doing these will improve you being able to give your full attention.
  • Remaining still and silent– Intend to not interrupt.  To wait for 3 seconds after they have stopped speaking before I speak.  Wait for 8 seconds or longer when I have asked a deep and meaningful question, watch them thinking, keep your eyes on theirs, be interested in what their answer may be.
  • Just listening – Which means that no advice or solutions are given, we just wonder what they may say next.  When things go silent, quietly repeat the original question or ask, “And what more?” 

 

The Voice (from The Talker, Mac)

  • Your voice is an instrument, not just a drain for the brain. Cadence, tone, volume, rhythm, spaces-between, pause, up-or-down movement. Try repeating the quote below 10 times: change the rhythm, then change the tone, volume, spaces-between (silence), up-or-down movement (rising toward the end, falling at the end, various rises and falls), breathe differently.
  • Build discovery and assembly with what you frame by your response: reflect forward. Listen for foundations you can build upon rather than points to be made against. You’ll be shocked to find you haven’t lost anything.
  • Words as Poetry—cognac, not light beer. Compose and surround words with air. “To be or not to be, that is the question” is the perfect length for making a point. Boil it down and down, cut out the filler, and have the courage to expose your thought directly.
  • W. A.I.T. and W.A.I.S.T.: Why am I talking? and Why am I still talking? Welcome these gems as the voice of our better angel, our Jiminy Cricket, our embrace of humility.

 You can listen to our podcast at https://www.buzzsprout.com/1171136/4565132. Enjoy!

 

About the author

Mac Bogert is President of AZA Learning and a regular columnist for the Learning Counsel. He began his career as an English teacher. For the past 25 years, Mac has focused on the intersection of leadership and learning. In between, he is a musician, professional actor, yacht charter captain, staff development consultant, curriculum designer and author of Learning Chaos.